straight out of the box

[jamesaw]

Interesting thread for sure. One of the reasons I stopped building after I got married was that I tended to "go to town" with details, accessories and decals to the point where a $6 kit was costing me $100 to finish and took several months. It got to the point where it was far too expensive, time consuming and most importantly, no longer fun. In 17 years I built 3 models-1 for myself and two for my son. In the past couple of years I've basically been building OOB, mainly the new Airfix offerings where the detail is more than acceptable to my failing eyesight, the decals work as they are supposed to and the fit, with a few exceptions, is generally pretty good. I am back in the hobby and enjoying it again.

I may use the odd vacform canopy and after using up all my Airwaves seatbelts, have now taken a tip from the forum and now use Tamiya tape. Most of my builds now are much quicker and built as Airfix intended. I have also noticed that a lot of the AM components now don't really offer much by way of improvement and as JamesPerrin pointed out, get used for the sake of using them.

[AndrewR]

I have a spending rule that the cost of aftermarket bits (resin or etched) must be less than the cost of the kit.

As I am a thrifty chappie, most of my kits cost less than $10, so not much gets added!

With decals, I tend to look for multiple subject sheets, rather than the multiple schemes for the same aircraft ones.

[Dazzled]

I generally add a bit of something extra to a kit, particularly some of the older ones. For one thing I just hate to see a basic cockpit (or worse, a black hole) in an aircraft model because it can be such a focal point (and it can draw attention away from all my other bodges ). If I can't get anything specific, I'll often spruce it up with a bit of scratchbuilding.

But that's just me

[iggie]

I have loads of after- market bits, most bought a long while ago and largely redundant as I've built the kit and forgotten I had the extras.......
Even when I do remember I have extras for a kit under assembly, I rarely use all of the parts, as some are just too small to bother with

[rob_van_riel]

But to add stuff which 'accurizes' a kit? Then no, not really, if the kit is that bad I wouldn't buy it in the first place??

Just for a lark, run the numbers on a state-of-the-art kit, and an ancient (but accurate in basic shape) one plus after market bits of value equal to the price difference between the kits. Odds are the resulting boosted oldy will compare quite favourably to the new model, with the added challenge of getting all those AM bits to fit where they really weren't meant to go.

Point in case (with a new low-spec kit rather than an oldy, but so what): http://uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8574
Price tags:
4.99 kit (cover price, obtained considerably cheaper..)
6.30 Aires cockpit
4.50 Quickboost prop

Tamiya kit: 14.99

[Zee28]

Interesting.....

I hardly ever use anything After-Market, but I don't have anything against it, I just don't really have the skills or patience (and I'm too lazy!) to use them.

Being a bit strange, I like classic kits built OOB for the simplicity, speed and convenience.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet (unless I missed it) is scale. For example: Filling a 1/72nd cockpit with every detail is probably not going to seen hardly at all upon completion with canopy added, but doing it in 1/24th, perhaps with the option to open the canopy, would be far more worthwhile.

After market decals, well, I will go to great lengths to salvage the old kit decals, saving yellowed, cracked or damaged decals is something I find strangely rewarding. I will also check the spares box and will only go AM as a very last resort. It feels a bit odd to pick an old CBK for £3 and then have to spend £7 or more on a decal sheet for it! Suddenly a cheap fun kit becomes quite costly.

As for resin and PE n' all that stuff, well, frankly, no. I model exclusively in 1/72nd and in this small scale I agree with what Eric Mc once said, it's better to get the main paint scheme right with a good accurate finish than worry about tiny details in the cockpit. But I do admire those that do it.

I model by the adage 'A simple job done well looks better than a complicated job messed up!' And as I haven't got the skills for complex AM stuff I keep it simple!

Also, looking around the shows, I find that after-market stuff is pretty costly. I've seen 1/72nd resin pilot figures for £2.99. I mean, seriously? They were very nice and beautifully tooled, and I enquired because I like an occupied office and some kits don't have pilots, but I couldn't justify an extra £2.99 on a second-hand kit that cost me, well, £2.99! Like AndrewR, I am fairly thrifty with modelling.

Probably the only time I go after-market is if there is a glaring error in the original kit (and it has to be a BIG error that even I couldn't live with, and my tolerance is broad!). Consequently, I have only one single piece of resin in my whole stash, and yes, you've guessed it, it's a replacement nose for the Airfix Boulton Paul Defiant.

As for magazine reviews, I agree. My view is that if it is a new kit, just out, it should be built OOB so we can see what we're getting. If it's a well established kit with thriving after-market availability, and is featured as a 'Big Build' then sure, go for it, let's see what can be done.

Just my views....

Zee

[Clashcityrocker]

Well put Zee

Nigel

[Stuart]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet (unless I missed it) is scale. For example: Filling a 1/72nd cockpit with every detail is probably not going to seen hardly at all upon completion with canopy added, but doing it in 1/24th, perhaps with the option to open the canopy, would be far more worth while.

Lol – Um, I’d better hide the resin cockpit I bought for my 1/72 Airfix A-4B Skyhawk….

I agree actually, it’s been an interesting discussion. As far as the magazines go, I think it depends on the type of build – if it’s a review build then it should be just that, a review of what’s in the box. And if it’s just a normal build article, then anything goes as far as I’m concerned – sometimes it’s nice to see what these AM companies produce – as they are just as big a part of ‘modelling’ as the kit companies (sometimes).

As for my own builds? My thoughts on AM vary. I normally build OOB because it’s easier and quicker, and normally I’m not really bothered by detail and just prefer to build the kit as intended - for a WWII fighter all I may add in the cockpit is a paper IP and a bit of plastic rod as a control column – and that’s enough for me.

I have been known to use a PE instrument panel etc. to jazz things up a little in a plain cockpit, but normally it’s a bit of PE I happened to have in the stash, and nothing that I couldn’t do with some plastic card. I did buy a fair bit of PE stuff when I got back into modelling, as I thought that was what you were supposed to do to be a proper modeller – but I know better now, and as it happens I HATE working with PE. I have nothing against it, and I will continue to use what I have in the stash, and I have seen others use it to great effect, but after the fiasco with my Venom, I won’t be buying anymore (probably).

Resin on the other hand I’m starting to feel a little different about. My initial forays into this medium were not very successful (as above - I bought a fair bit as I thought I had to use it be a proper modeller), but although I’m still not keen on working with it – I have had some successes. I did an early PR Spitfire with a Pavla conversion set once which I enjoyed, and the Highplanes stuff I bought for my Beaufighter was also a good investment as the engines looked much better than the originals. The resin gun barrels I used on my mk.22 Spitfire were also much better than the original Airfix ones.

This is why I bought a cockpit set, some canon barrels and a heavy bomb load set for my Airfix A-4B. Although it’s a great kit, I just wanted to push it up a little and stretch myself a bit, I can see the benefits of resin and I WANT to get better at using it.
The Airfix A-4B is a good case in point. It’s a really nice looking kit, that I feel is let down by its cockpit – what’s the point of having the option to open the canopy when you only have decals for the IP and side panels? Yes the seat is good, but the rest of the detail is just flat. But then I guess that’s the one of the joys of modelling, sometimes it’s nice to just slap things together, and sometimes it’s nice to go a bit further and see what you can do. Strangely I decided NOT to get a full resin cockpit for my 1/24th Harrier – go figure.

I’ve also used some plastic injection moulded upgrades/conversion sets from 3D-kits and they are very nice.

I also love AM decals! That’s a collection in itself and I love getting a nice set from Xtradecal.

The discussion on what’s an acceptable level of detail on a 1/72 model is another discussion

Anyway, that’s my two pennies. Sorry for the Ramble.

Cheers

Stuart

[Zee28]

Not a ramble Stuart, all well made points of discussion mate!

One thing I should of perhaps emphasised more is that I genuinely admire those that use AM and super-detail cockpits etc. I really do. Just because I don't (or can't!) do it doesn't mean I don't admire the results of those that do. Consequently I am very much looking forward to seeing your Skyhawk.

This has been an interesting debate but as for magazine reviews there seems to be consensus of opinion. New kit? OOB so we can see what we're getting. A well established kit on a Big Build, anything goes, let's see what can be done.

Stuart, I know what you mean by 'Flat' cockpit detail where we are reliant purely on kit supplied decals for instrument panels and side consoles etc. Some consider that to be perfectly adequate at 1/72. but some want more relief, a more 3 dimensional result.

But, of course, it's all comparative. For example, I personally am thrilled by decals for cockpit switches because many years ago we didn't even have that luxury! We just had a rudimentary seat and nothing else!

Another point probably worth mentioning is whether the modeller uses a pilot figure(s) or not. Without a pilot, well then we may feel the need to add some detail in there, we may want belts, control column, etc. but add a pilot figure and that seriously fills up the cockpit area, makes it busier so the requirement for extra detail may diminish.

I feel I am in a minority by putting pilot figures in everything, the trend at the moment is definitely skewed towards not having them. I notice quite a few of my forum buddies on here only use them if they do the model on a stand and 'In flight' so to speak, all other instances the cockpit remains unoccupied, therefore allowing (and perhaps needing) some extra effort in cockpit detailing.

I don't know why I like pilot figures (because I hate painting them!) but I always put them in. It might just be the way I was brought up as modelling kid. A diet of Airfix back in the 70's meant you always got a pilot figure (or a complete crew) in every kit, without fail. And as a kid it seemed wrong not to use them, so I guess I've just become conditioned to use them. Plus, of course, it's a cheat, for the reasons above, it fills the void!

I think another thing worth doing is to inspect the transparency, particularly on older kits, and try to make a judgment call on what will, and will not, be visible upon completion. Is it crystal clear? Is there an option to pose it open? Or is it a thick cloudy distorted lump! Are you replacing it with a super-clear AM vac canopy?

All these questions, for me, relate to how much effort (or not!) to put into the cockpit detail. Because super-detailing things that simply will not be seen is sort of like 'Modelling for God', only you and the great man in the sky know it's there! And that's fine if the modeller finds it rewarding and worthwhile, but for me, life's to short and I'm too lazy!

Zee

[Stuart]

Lol - No worries Mr Zee.

As I said, sometimes it bothers me, and sometimes it doesn't - rest assured if I don't use the kit IP decals on the Skyhawk they'll end up in something else - an Airfix Jaguar Maybe.

I too love adding pilots -even if a model is on its wheels - not only, as you say, fill up a void, they also add a sense of scale.

Cheers

Stuart

[Zee28]

Oooooh, somebody else likes pilot figures! I don't feel like such a minority now.

[MarkyM607]

I don't really use AM bits, can't really get on with PE, although resin and I have a fair respect for each other!!. As far as pilots go, once I used to put them in everything, without fail, mainly because I built everything 'in flight' and it felt wrong to have a flying plane with no crew!, plus I hated undercarriage as I couldn't get it to stay put!. Now I have shifted to wheels down for display and the pilots have gone, mainly due to the 'poor' poses for them when aircraft are on the ground. In the air it's no so much of a problem, but ground display needs animation in figures.

[Zee28]

I see your point re- Pilots MarkyM607, and I think you are probably in the majority within the modelling fraternity! I'm just a bit strange.........

[MarkyM607]

That's cool, we're all strange in our own way!.

[AndrewR]

Pilots forever!
I love putting pilots in planes, when you can get decent ones.